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[xphantomphixer]

Before I start this rant, I would like to offer my heartfelt thanks to Stone SC for putting on an excellent event.  Everyone was helpful and welcoming, which is pretty much all you could ask for!

Now, anyone in the middle of the fleet at the nationals will know exactly what I mean by rafts - there were huge pile-ups at the leeward mark in just about every race.  In most cases I think these were due to the tide, the blanketing effect of many boats converging and the light winds.  Mostly they were good-humoured and did not result in acrimony, death threats or protests.

However, there were 2 protests and I was the victim (and I do mean that) of one.  This is where the Kangaroo comes in, as the hearing I was subjected to can only be described as a kangaroo court.  The outcome was that I was disqualified from R3.  In addition, I was threatened with being held liable for damage to another's boat despite being 2 boats away as part of a huge raft.  The injustice and stupidity of this situation pretty much ruined my enjoyment of the event.  I apologise to anyone who I was rude to...

Just before I left the club (ie 24 hrs after the protest hearing) I found the PRO who gave me a copy of the protest form.  This was the first opportunity I had to read the allegations against me.  On returning home, I got my rule book out and discovered all the rules the protest committee had not followed in the conduct of the hearing.  I nearly got a full house!  As a relatively inexperienced sailor I was not aware of these rules in detail and I had no opportunity to find out, as no time was allowed for preparation.  However, I was absolutely certain that the process I had been subjected to was unjust.
My insurance company advised me to register a claim on the basis that the third party might claim against me.  They also suggested I should consider appealing to the RYA.  I did this and have just heard that my appeal has been upheld and the protest has been overturned.  This will make little difference to the places for most people (I remain pretty near the bottom of the fleet!).  However, this really isn’t the point – the protest was ludicrous and the protest hearing a travesty. 

I know that there was another protest, leading to another disqualification and I understand that similarly poor procedures were applied in that case too.  The whole incident is so contrary to the way I try to enjoy my sailing and the spirit I have found in the class.  It can only reflect badly on the class if this kind of nonsense is allowed to continue. 

[John Torrance]

The problem is caused by having a run, if we just did triangles the problem would ease as the blanketing effect would be less, also for mid fleet helms the reaches are much more fun than a run when sailing a Phantom.  The front of the fleet will tell us that reaches are not as tactically demanding, but it not their boats getting bashed.
Bring back the triangle!
John

[Little Monster]

Surely promoting even a basic knowledge of the rules would be the best way forward otherwise you just hide the problem.

I have yet to do a phantom nats but sail in plenty of big fleet events and see the problem all the time whatever the course.

My guess is that this problem exists where the people this affects (generally those that get bumped) only sail in a big fleet once a year so don't get much of a chance to learn/ apply the rules correctly.  My guess is that they rarely have more than one or two other boats at a mark at their clubs.  

We all know its difficult when boats are approaching from different angles and directions and we all want to get to the mark first but that is no excuse in not knowing the basics.

By not knowing the rules or not applying enough forward thinking when approaching a mark you put yours and others boats in a position of risk

Owners need to apply 'Rule 92 (common sense) - If in doubt keep clear, avoid contact and have a chat with somebody in the bar afterwards'.  It may be that you were in the right, but until you are sure and can express that on the water before it happens prudence would suggest you give people room.

I am a great advocate of having a word with the people around me long before I get to the mark.  It does not make me right, its just easier for everybody to avoid a crash and I am more than happy to retire after a race if I happen to be wrong.

Anyway just my humble opinion

Regards

Ian

P.s Does the class have a gate at the bottom of the run or just the one mark?

['One-Pint']

As someone who has been on both sides - seriously put-off Nationals events (thanks Solos) and out of my depth as a race officer I find this thread very interesting.  

I was severely rafted at Middle Nene once and I put this down to having 40-odd Solos along with a separate L***r fleet, sent off 5 minutes after us.  The wind dropped and chaos ensued! Raft? you could have walked from one side of the lake to the other!

I am also mindful of the pressure 'willing volunteers' are under when dealing with incidents and protests.  Mine involved a NSSA regatta where the kids knew far more than me....(last time I agree to do that.)

So, yes, better knowledge of the rules helps all-round.  Perhaps in the situation the protest was a bit unecessary? if we are sailed with other classes, I see runs remaining as part of the course.  In setting mixed handicap courses it has never occurred to me NOT to put a run in, even if its a short one because I never want to be accused of favouring any one class sailing.

Food for thought.  

Andrew

[gordon Kingston]

Hi All
would the problem be eased by reverting to the standard triangle sausage format. By having the run first after a short first beat no spaces have been created.
My hope for next year is longer beats, stronger wind and bigger waves to spread things out a bit.

I admit I prefer getting going and sailing in space and avoiding other boats in general, funny isnt that what the fast guys do, if only I was quick and could start.

Regards
Gordon

[Clive]

I have to admit to not being completely up to speed with the rules, but I was always taught to avoid collisions, then sort it out afterwards preferable on the water.

[Paul Lester]

Right then Phil,

Lets get this cleared up because for one do not like being the subject of a message on a public forum.

Firstly my boat was damaged, so I protested you as you caused the damage by not giving water to myself and another boat. You also caused a ripped sail and broken lower on another boat and numerous dents.

The RYA did not upheld the original protest because we were not allowed in the room when a witness was called. THIS MEANS YOU WERE STILL IN THE WRONG just procedures were not followed correctly.

I was not sent any details of an appeal you sent to the RYA so could not put my side of the events to the RYA.

I did inform you i was going to protest as your actions were dangerous and resulted in me being hit by another boat whist in the water and trapped between boats. I shouted when in the water and whilst fending off other boats. When I did find you after the race i said PROTEST to you and informed the OOD at the earliest time when I was still on the water. You knew I was protesting all along.

I for one do not like being threatened and being told to F*** off when asking for your insurance details which you refused to give me.

I for one hope I never have the misfortune to sail against you again and in future if you have anything to say, say it too my face and not moan on a forum.

Paul

[xphantomphixer]

I have no intention of getting into a debate here. I was careful not to personalise this matter on the forum.

My intention was to raise the problem of rafting at the leeward marks and highlight the poor standards of procedure applied in the protest hearing.  We have had some interesting and constructive comments on the rafting issue, so I feel it has been worthwhile.

I regret that you did not see me at my best at Stone and I apologise for my use of strong language. 

[springer]

I personally find this topic very interesting and I came away from Stone with a very strong feeling of disappointment and no little anger.  In race 6 yet another large raft formed at the leeward mark and much bumping and shouting occurred.  Following my own understanding of the rules I gybed away and proceeded around the outside of the raft, avoiding all collisions, sat in a blanket of no wind and watched unhappily while 15 or 20 or more helms sailed off upwind  having passed me.

I confidently expected that those helms involved in collisions, possibly 10 or more, and those which made contact with the mark, at least 5, would be unhapplily doing their penalty turns during the next upwind leg.  Sadly an attitude of "it wasn't my fault guv," appears to have prevailed and NOT ONE SINGLE helm chose to do any turns.    This is in direct contradiction of several BASIC rules of racing, which we all profess to sail by, indeed all of those helms who signed off that race "DECLARED" that they had sailed to the rules of racing.

It certainly left me feeling that attendance at events with this amount of entries, a large proportion of  whom appear ready to jettison the rules of racing when it suits them, has become something less than pleasurable. I definitely have to be persuaded that entering this size of fleet again is for me.

OK grouse over, on a very much happier note, I too wish to add my thanks to Neil Fulcher and all the crew at Stone for the superb organsation of this years nationals.  In my several years of attendance at National Championships, very few clubs have gone as far out of their way to welcome our class as did Stone Sailing Club.   Thank You.

John Bower.    1270