Print

[dinghysailor]

Hi
Would you expect a 1970's F1 car to race with the same handicap as this years model ? Wonder if anyone else has this problem ....
I am struggling to get my club to recognise there is a difference between my old woodie with a tin rig and the new plastic hot hatches. I sail on the river in a very mixed fleet and last weekend we started a pursuit series. Nearly 5 mins after everyone else had set off Billy No Mates was still sat on the line waiting to start (nearly drifted over which would have been embarrassing). After the allotted time I did manage to close the gap and pass one 'go slow' but not a chance of getting to race in the main pack.
Do you have an adjusted PY for older boats at your club or maybe just a general adjustment to reflect the local conditions or mix of boats sailing. Just interested to hear how it works elsewhere.

[gordon Kingston]

Hi Keith
when I bought an old wooden boat the Handicap at the time was 1047 if I remember correctly.
Others will know more, certainly you have no chance of 1002 as the Handicap is set for the modern down to weight boats.
Gordon

[dinghysailor]

Hi Gordon
I think that 1047 should be about right. I have put a formal request into the sailing committee at my club so will have to see what happens. All things being equal, there are better sailors than me in the club so the chances of me winning are limited but I would like to be able to get in the middle somewhere and experience the race. The club has in the past made local adjustments for some fleets but last year took the approach that it would be the published RYA numbers for everyone !

[Thumper]

Hi Keith,

We have three phantom local handicaps at my club: one for epoxy, one GRP and one woody. See link

http://www.wfyc.co.uk/content/racing/PYN%20Handicaps.htm

Unfortunately not updated for 2014, but it gives the general direction.  We epoxies are all on 1002 now, woodies still on 1032.

Cheers

[dinghysailor]

Thanks Warren
As mentioned a I have requested a review at my club so lets see what happens. I'll post an update when I hear anything.

[dinghysailor]

So, after a bit of a wait I have now had some feedback from the sailing committee at my club. They have agreed that there are grounds to adjust the PY for my old Phantom 671 and have awarded me the new handicap of 1058 (till the end of the year).

This of course makes no allowance for the rubbish sailor holding the tiller but does put a marker down for any one else who is sailing on a budget in an old boat and does not want to be billy no mates at the bottom of the results table.

[MattHarris]

Hi Keith,

Just wondering how you got on with the Handicap of 1058 for the year?  We use 1030 for non-carbon, non epoxy boats but I'm wondering if this is still a little harsh and maybe needs moving to 1045-1055?  Any input would be appreciated.

Matt

[John Torrance]

Before Epoxy and with carbon the PY was 1052. I don't think it changed when carbon was introduced in 1993 by Roger Thomas, he did not show it up in the best light and it wasn't until 2000 when the class really started using it, but it did not affect the handicap. Epoxy certainly did!
John

[essexbloke]

At ASC, we don't have any woodies, but have got (only) 2 <1100 older epoxy boats.  For 2014 the club agreed to sail us of about 1030 (i cant recall the exact number), I think it's under review now with the new list just being published.  We'll never be competitive again though if they adopt the latest sub 1000 figures from the RYA.  (just checked - we're actually on 1035 now)

[floatyourboat]

At our sailing club there are 4 wooden Phantoms.  The three regular club racing ones are all on different PY handicaps because the page on the Association website is a bit confusing in the way it is worded.  My boat is number 1026, and I have been put into PY 1035 because " it is  recommended that for older boats (pre-epoxy, i.e. sail number pre-1100) that the boat is raced at 1035, and for those pre-999 the PY is 1047" without specifying that wooden boats may all be grouped together on 1047?  It is even worse for the bloke with the 1100+ wooden boat, he is put into PY 1025.  The logic of "pre epoxy" isn't understood by the club race committee as they have not taken the time to follow the type history.

Perhaps I am wrong in assuming that wooden boats do not follow the blanket PY guidelines based upon boat number ........

Who do I need to talk to to get the info on the Association history PY section clarified? for better or worse.  At the moment it is a nonsense in clubs all over the place.

Of course, I could apply for enough pocket money to get a boat that matches the PY number I have. 

Best,

Andrew.

[Phantom Titch]

1050 is good for a well sailed woody with Tin rig
1030 is good for a well sailed woody with Carbon rig
1047 was the old number for Plastic as we were changing over to Carbon...
1010 for anything else, sail numbers are irrelevant, its all about boat weight, most plastic boats were grossly overweight and the move to carbon really helped, Carbon on a down to weight woody and in anything but marginal planning conditions you can be on the pace, if your name is Andy Couch!!

Titch

Just an opinion