Phantom Class Forum
General => Classic Phantoms => Topic started by: Christina the astonishing on April 24, 2008, 01:25:23 PM
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Dear all Classic fleet members.
I currently own and race Phantom 871. It is quite a rarity being one of the four Paul Young/Rondar composite phantoms built in the 80's). She is self filling (No Double floor) and is far from being competitiive with the newer shiny Phantoms that head the Contemporary fleet.
I would like her to be considered as Classic. I have approached the commitee who have said no but suggested I open it up to the members of the classic fleet for cosideration. I dont want to muddy the waters with regards to new composite boats built around new hulls as they obviously are a different Kettle of fish entirely!
I will be at the forthcoming Northampton event should anyone wish to scrutinise her.
She is old (I dont know her original weight or DOB) and thus I would hope that with your agreement I would be allowed to compete with the Classics.
During my research when I purchased her from a guy near Yoevil, I heard that there were 4 composite Rondar boats built. Are any of the others still in use? I know she had to have major works to get her back into shape
I look forward to hearing your views.
Kind regards
James
Phantom 871
"Christina the Astonishing"
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i would be happy to say it is a classic as non self draining being part made of glass doesnt make it new or faster????
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James
I don't know who you asked on the committee but the subject has not been raised at a committee meeting. Personally, and this is not a committee decission, I cannot see any reason why your boat does not qualify as a classic inspite of the plastic hull.
For those of us old enough to remember the four composites always performed well.
Perhaps it will be discussed at the next meeting.
Enjoy the boat anyway and good luck.
John
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I discussed it with Mike Potter.
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I think it should be a classic. Any none self drainer should be.
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I owed 874 at Sutton Bingham having purchased it from the illustrious Mr Barnstable. This was around the same time that 871 was there. 874 went to a new home on the south coast in 2003 when 1139 arrived all light and shiny.
If you have ever hauled one of the composites up a steep slipway you wouldn't doubt their claim to classic status. 874 in its old age made the old Vandercraft GRP boats seem light. It also needed more than a single Elvestrom mini bailer to empty it after its frequent capsizes. I do however believe it won the Nationals (twice?) in its youth in inifinitely more capable hands.
Chris
1139
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Excuse my ignorance, but what does having a classic actually mean in practice. I have 946, a wooden self drainer, which I plan to venture out with for the first time at the Inlands next month.
Does having a classic there change anything, other than the fact that I won't be able to keep up with the others?
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At the moment, a Classic means nothing when racing with the other tupperware boats. But we hope to run some races soon , possibly at Blithfield, and hopefully at the Nationals where some form of handicapping within the Classics will allow for a more even result.
This is not passed the committee yet as I've not been able to attend a meeting due to work clashes with dates fir meetings. Email me at mikejpotter@talktalk.net and I will put you into the Classic database for information forwarding when it happens.
Regards,
Mike.
909
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Now you see for me, classic means about 30 years old or more (and I'm not talking about myself here!) I hope I am in your database Mike. I will try and bring the boat to Blithfield one of these days.....
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You are very welcome. Blithfield seems to be taking the approach that Phantom owners ought to have two boats, one a Classic and one as the more competitive tupperware. I hope to offer a Classic event later in the summer and there will details about this at the Blithfield Open on 21st. June.
Come along and see for yourself!
Mike
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Hi all,
Just a thought but instead of calling it a classic fleet. Instead call it the non epoxy fleet. Maybe title needs a bit of work but it would mean any boat not an epoxy hull would qualify.
At my club we have a guy sailing with a home built woodern boat with a number around 1230 ish (can't remember it exactly). Anyway his boat is not as quick as the epoxy boats and he uses an aluminium rig. Would he qualify for the classic fleet?
Cheers
Paul
1243
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I would hope the definition could be cut as such with inclusion being the aim to encorage rather than to exclude.
???
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non epoxy does not sound as good as classic. I favour the non self draining approach myself.
K88 graced the water again yesterday - the sixth time since I bought her 10 years ago and is going nicely, despite the ramshackle rig.
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Hi Guys,
It is far and away better to agree the definition of a 'Classic' Phantom than it is to come up with a codged description that covers a mixed bag of different non-epoxy boats.
The idea was simply to encourage the older Phantoms that were built to either the designers' plans that have always been available or to a design made up to suit the owners preferences, but all should 'measure' and be of 'wood' entirely.
The second step was to derive a method of handicapping that would make for a more level playing field for these older but slower boats, again keeping their owners interests to the fore. Such a handicapping method has been designed, but not yet ratified. I don't think it needs ratification, more an event run under its guidleines to see if it will work. I will be discussing this in Committee soon, I hope.
Once the "Classic" definition is accepted by every one, then we can add 'sub-groups' to encourage other members and their particular craft, be it wood, composite or non-epoxy plastic. To do that will allow a greater involvement of the owners with their boats and keep the Association being relevant to them. Hopefully, some will even join the Association!
Due to pressure of work, I've not done as much as I would have liked in the context of the 'Classic' Phantom this year, but we hope to run one event in the Midlands to which all Classic owners will be very welcome. Watch the web-site for details as they become available.
Mike.
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what about a epoxy hull with a wooden deck that is a non self drainer ?
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I refer you to the penultimate paragraph of my reply below.
M
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The CVRDA would recognize as classic any boat over 25 years old. Won't that do ??
Nick
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That would certainly be fine with me - although I have no means of proving the age of my boat.
I would like to join the association, but since I'd be unlikely to get to more than one event, I'd be pushed to justify affording it.
I may well try to get to Blithfield just for the hell of it. The boat looked good this evening with her new lines etc, but I'd need to beg or borrow a bottom cover.
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That would certainly be fine with me - although I have no means of proving the age of my boat.
I would like to join the association, but since I'd be unlikely to get to more than one event, I'd be pushed to justify affording it.
I may well try to get to Blithfield just for the hell of it. The boat looked good this evening with her new lines etc, but I'd need to beg or borrow a bottom cover.
I think you miss the point of joining the association.....
The association is not just there for the racers, and not just something you should do to enter an event.
The association is there to support the class as a whole, old boats as much as new, the work of the association helps keep the class in the media, maintain a high profile for the class, help preserve the integrity of the boats and as a result helps maintain the value of all boats. Hence the work currently being done to try and find older Phantoms and provide support to their owners in the hope they will either be sailed more or be passed onto somebody looking for a low cost entry into the class.
This web site itself is an indication of what can be done by the association to help and aid its members, look at all the FREE advice and help that can be had here. All committee members give of their time and effort freely to support the class and its members, and many give a huge amount often costing them money from their own pockets.
In my opinion everybody who owns a Phantom should join the association as a routine, this web site itself is more than value for the small amount of cash it costs
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I am well aware of the role of class associations Roger - I used to be on the committee of the 470 class association; I know what a thankless task it can be. I have tried to use the forum to gain advice about my restoration project, but my requests for help have gone largely ignored.
None of the free advice offered seems to apply to my boat, in fact, apart from Mike, no one seems interested that I own probably the oldest phantom in the country and no one has been bothered enough even to measure their boom for me!
My work on my phantom has only cost me money - nobody else. So far the forum and website have been pretty much irrelevant to me.
If, on the other hand, I ask a question on the contender forum or website, I get a wealth of useful, relevant answers from sailors all over the world - no matter how daft the question may have been. Unsurprisingly I put my cash into that class instead.
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The CVRDA would recognize as classic any boat over 25 years old. Won't that do ??
Nick
Actually I believe the CVRDA only allows boats over 25 years old BUT designed before 1965. I have done events in an old Kestrel I used to own.
Check out http://www.cvrda.org/
Russell
1177
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I believe the Phantom was designed after that, so it is down to the committee to decide.
Mike
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The Rondar Composite Four are classified as Classic Phantoms from now on, if they haven't yet sunk in recent racing.
Let's hear from you guys and get yourself to Blithfield on the 26th July for the 1st Classic Open. :)
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I know I'm resurrecting an old thread, but I appear to have bought one of the Rondar 4, now the owner of 873.
Bought the boat blind off Facebook for not a lot even though I was after a woodie and finally got around to collecting today, the boat will be used for CVRDA events (had enough of Finns, and the CVRDA now allows classic Phantoms to take part).
Just wondering if the other Rondar boats are still around.
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surely a classic
Steve
1414